Sponsor |  homebase | Feb 2, 12:39pm | This subject is typically not taken very seriously by science-minded people. If like me, the most we are likely to say on the subject, is that we believe life exists throughout the universe, but as to whether or not we're being visited, that's a different matter. There are a lot of hoaxes out there, and those who talk about ufo's or aliens are often ostracized. As science-minded people, we want hard evidence and reproducible experimental results to be convinced of something. And I consider that commendable.
However, lately I've been getting into this subject. Even though it does not permit the everyday citizen either hard evidence or reproducible experiments.
In the past, I have typically considered ufo's and aliens to be just a cultural phenomenon, an idea that has spread relatively recently. Lately, I've been watching shows on the subject which tend to repute this idea. What they have said is that accounts go back in human history for thousands of years. Supposedly, Christopher Colombus wrote in his ledger while coming to the Americas that they saw a bright object come out of the ocean. Alexander the Great witnessed metallic shield-like objects come out of the water. He spent the last 6 years of his life using a diving bell to search under the water to find out what it was. King Tuthmosis III had in his royal records an account of seeing numerous craft in the air over a several day period. Renaissance paintings show saucer-like images in the background, with people looking up to observe. There have even been cave paintings which depict what look to be flying saucers and the type of alien that is popular today, with the big eyes. Mayans recorded the source of their mathematics, astronomy and calander to be beings with large heads.
Recently, an old Navy buddy contacted me, and the subject came up. I told him I had been watching these shows for numerous weeks. He was much more involved. He started by reading books on the subject, and is now involved with a group called the Disclosure Project, which has been taking testimonies from U.S. ex-military, ex-government, and ex-defense corporation personnel, with the mission of getting governments to disclose the information they have. The video I just watched is something else. Granted, it is human testimony, not hard evidence, but on this topic there is a possible explanation why we have no hard evidence.
Check out this video. It's in two parts, each an hour long. It's mostly old, retired people, perhaps because they no longer have a career to lose.
video.google.com/videoplay [video.google.com/videoplay]
video.google.com/videoplay [video.google.com/videoplay]
I'm a skeptic in general, but I'm starting to think there is something to this. There's just too many pieces to the puzzle that, when taken together, paint a convincing picture.
Other things to look at: COMEDA report; Ronald Reagan's speeches to UN and conversations with Soviet leaders; black box recordings of military and commercial airline pilots; Phoenix Lights case; etc.
What do you guys think? |
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Sponsor | | pixiequix | Feb 2, 1:20pm | I'm familiar with the Disclosure Project.
Apparently quite a few people who have been forced to keep secrets for the US military are becoming fed up.
I've spent a lot of time out in the untamed wilderness in my life, and on several occasions I've brought a telescope with me out into that wilderness. After closely inspecting all that our night sky has to offer without intrusive lights or smog, it became obvious pretty quickly that there are so many things in this universe that we've yet to understand. |
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Sponsor | | CastorQuinn | Feb 2, 1:28pm | I think Science™ has two general responses to the idea of alien life:
1) The universe is exceptionally large, and so if a natural process kicked in to spark life on our planet, it's statistically unlikely that the process hasn't kicked off at least once more somewhere in the universe at some point in time.
2) The distance between us and any other potential life is so great that the chance of directly encountering this life is statistically and physically unlikely.
It's a little ironic. The same thinking that says life is probable tells us we'll probably never know for sure.
Personally I think we've been visited. But not necessarily by aliens. Or at least not by aliens from other stars. Here's the one that really intrigues me:
crystalinks.com/vimana.html [crystalinks.com/vimana.html]
I have the book at home about this, by an historian from the 50s. "The ancient Indians fought the Atlanteans with nuclear bombs on the moon" sounds like the premise for a really, really dumb sci-fi book, but ... geez, you really do have to wonder. |
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Sponsor | | homebase | Feb 2, 1:35pm | 3 - I brought up the vast distances / nothing-faster-than-light issue with my Navy buddy. His response, informed by more testimony than I have yet seen, was that the craft don't actually travel those distances, they 'jump' here.
I think differently regarding the probability. If there is life everywhere, and the ability to 'jump' is real, I would think it would be likely that we would be visited, even given the vastness of space. Even at our current level of advancement, our ability to search for life-likely planets keeps improving..
The Vimanas are another good example. As are the Nazca lines.
2 - I wish their website was a little more impressive. Specially, why not include this video.
Have either of you watched the clips? |
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Sponsor | | PinGUY | Feb 2, 1:49pm | A lot of so called UFOs of today are more and likely top secret new aircrafts. Just look at how advance the Blackbird SR-71 is and remember that it was first introduced way back in 1966 when technology wasn't all that special.
If they could build something like the Blackbird SR-71 back in 1966 just think about the type of aircrafts they have now.
One aircraft that I know of in development is the Aurora SR-91 that to many untrained eyes would look other worldly, and even this plane is nearly 20 years old.
All that aside I am a big believer in UFOs, I have seen two crafts that I can not explain, to my knowledge they where able to do things that are just years past anything we can do with are understanding of physics, we would have to be able to cancel the effects of inertia to corner at the speeds these crafts where moving at.
Some country's have already openly admitted that they do get UFOs over there air space, one of these country's is france.
The conclusion these country's have made is that there is nothing they can do about them, they will come and go as pleased but don't want to cause any harm.
To a country like the US I can see why they wouldn't want the public to know about them as many people would just panic, (remember when world of the wars was on radio?) if they thought that there government had no control over the sky's.
If you just look into some of the cases about UFOs it becomes pretty clear that there are a lot of hoaxes (Billy Meier) out there and even more dumb people that belive these hoaxes but once in awhile you find some pretty hard evidence and you wonder way this isn't public knowledge.
If you are interested in the history of UFOs/Aliens the most interesting thing I have ever read about the subject is a ancient civilization called the Sumerian |
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Sponsor | | homebase | Feb 2, 1:53pm | | I've seen one as well, when I was young. And the inertia / gravity-canceling effects were the most noteworthy aspects. But, like you, I did not take that to be proof of aliens. It's only when I take that experience, and combine with the testimony in these clips, as well as these other sources of information, and it starts to add up. |
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Sponsor | | pixiequix | Feb 2, 1:55pm | 4. Just watching 'em now.
5. There's not much else to explain some of the strange circumstances surrounding Sumerian culture! :) |
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Sponsor | | CastorQuinn | Feb 2, 2:04pm | Yep, I've also seen a UFO, and for the record I also have some of the physical signs of abduction, but I have absolutely no memory of such an event in my past and doubt it ever happened - but it was enough to get me interested in investigating the possibilities, so for that I'm thankful. Despite all that though I'm still not 100% convinced we've been visited in the way that is popularly thought: greys in saucers.
Jumping, hyper- and sub-space travel, warping space using ultra-high gravity, wormholes and other such faster-than-light travel ideas are great, and the physics should be investigated, if for no other reason than investigating them improves our understanding of physics. But for me we really need a highly-plausible functional model of those theories before I start factoring them into my thinking on this matter - at the moment it's a bit circular: aliens would be advanced enough to have such technology, and because they have such technology they could exist.
Personally I hold to a less 'flat' view of the cosmos. For the sake of simplicity, let's say I think the aliens we encounter come from other versions of reality, other experiences of the cosmos, rather than another location in our physical universe. There's a whole theory and philosophy behind that idea, but I won't go into it.
I haven't watched the vids, but I know of them from other sources. Alas they are just too big for my lower speed connection. |
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Sponsor | | PinGUY | Feb 2, 2:23pm | 6.)
I like the idea of what the Disclosure Project is doing, but I don't hold out any hopes of them proving that UFO/Aliens are real.
To some people they are never going to believe them, they could get a real life Alien to talk to the world and people will still believe that its a hoaxes or a trick, and I don't blame them, there has been so many hoaxes in the past why should we belive a word that they are saying. |
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Sponsor | | homebase | Feb 2, 2:24pm | 8 - I agree with you about the circularity of that argument. So, it would take believing the testimony to have an entrance into that circle. Those clips offer some pertinent testimony. If you have access to broadband somewhere I'd recommend this viewing to be worth it.
As a skeptic, I always keep in mind that hoaxes are possible, even grand, elaborate ones. There are actors, directors, special effects, and liars, who could conceivably pull something like this off. But that's not what I'm leaning towards in this case.
9 - I agree with you. It would take a lot. And special effects are possible - so are dark motives. But if the U.S. government disclosed such info, and presented some evidence.. I think that would go a long way. Specially since, if the narrative is to be believed, the government has been on the other side of the issue for so long. However, one idea presented here is that the U.S. is planning to use the prospect of aliens as enemy to fund some military projects. So, I guess there would be a motive for a government hoax.
BUT, the perspective in these clips from those testifying is to tell us so that we would not be fooled by the aliens-as-enemy fraud to come. |
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